"Hush, Hush Sweet Charolette" (1964) & Go Away Joan Crawford!

[00:00:02] Speaker A: You. [00:00:05] Speaker B: Welcome, everybody, to our 100. [00:00:12] Speaker C: Showing the ways, moving to Hollywood is coming into Hollywood. We know the ways going to Hollywood is welcome into Hollywood. Showing the ways, moving to Hollywood is coming into Hollywood. Um, all right, now we're live. And yes, like Georgia said, welcome to our 100th episode. And we have none other than our great friend Norman from the ultimate fashion history here, celebrating our 100th. We did it. Georgia. [00:00:53] Speaker B: I just want to say, moya, I really appreciate you for being the brains and the creative force and the great personality behind this podcast because it couldn't happen without you. I'm the research nerd, but I just want to say you have been so awesome and I have been loving having you as a podcast partner these past 99 episodes. [00:01:17] Speaker C: And same here, Georgia, I literally couldn't do it without you. You are my inspiration. That sounds like one of those old Chicago songs or hall mall car, but you really are. Because whenever I be like, oh, I don't know if I can do it. And there's rare times, but I just think about how much we love to do it and how much you're so sincere in supporting me when I came up with this. Because for those of you who don't know, we'll welcome to how Betty Davis saved my life. Life lessons from classic Hollywood, for one thing. Well, we talk about just all things that we feel are classic cinema and life lessons, of course. And we're going to get into our movie in a second. But yeah, when we first came up with this. So, Georgia, this is our third year. [00:02:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:02:11] Speaker C: Seems longer than that. So I think that's about right. No, this year will be in the summer, will be our fourth year. Now it's three years and counting. I was hoping we would make it to look every episode. We took an episode by episode. But when I came up with it and Georgia, Norman was so supportive because I was like, let's do a podcast. Let's talk about it. And Georgia didn't even hesitate. Norman, so just thank you so much for indulging me in my madness. And Norman, poor Norman, we've drugged him along this kooky ride. So thank you. And most of all, thank you to our audience. Thank you to first, we were just audio. So thank you to all our listeners. And we just found out, of course, in North America and most english speaking parts of the world, we have our largest audience, but we just found out for some reason in Saudi Arabia. So shout out to Saudi Arabia, our listeners there, and then of course, Facebook. And thank you for all the. We don't have a large audience, but we met our goals. So thank you for the followers who are there and supporting us. And then, of course, our YouTube followers. Again, we do this for you guys because we want to keep these movies alive. So just thank you. So I had the pictures to go with this. I want to do a retrospective. And since we have poor Norman here. Norman, we're going to put you on a hot spot, on a hot seat. And maybe I can just do this live right now because I had some pictures that I was going to put up there, but it didn't work out. So, Norman, our first ever movies that we did and. Can y'all hear me? I'm hearing some feedback. Is everything? Yes. [00:04:18] Speaker B: Yes. [00:04:19] Speaker C: Okay. Our first movie that we did, we did two at once. And we did it on a video on my little raggedy tablet that's so obsolete right now. You couldn't even upload flash photos or anything like that on there. It couldn't even handle the. So let me share. Georgia, what was our first two movies? Do you remember? [00:04:45] Speaker B: I think they were Mr. Skeffington. I think so. And I'm not sure about the other one. [00:04:53] Speaker C: It was a Betty Davis movie, but I. Very good. So I am going to show that right now. Georgia, you were absolutely correct. It was Mr. Skepticon and the little. Oh, shoot. And the little foxes. Yes. So, Norman, I'm putting you on the spot. Have you ever seen those movies? [00:05:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. I'm a diehard Betty fan. I've seen. [00:05:20] Speaker C: Putting, and, guys, we are going to get to today's so, but since we got Norman, we're going to put him on the spot. Tell us what you thought of Skeffington, just in your most concise emotions, what you thought of. [00:05:35] Speaker A: I mean, Claude Reigns is one of my favorite pairings with the movies that they've done together. And just him by himself, he brings such a gravitas to any picture. And I think that the relationship between him and Fanny. Fanny is. I think you have to suspend disbelief in a little bit because most beautiful woman in all of New York, but she does generate this character. She's able to sort of portray this character. And it's a poignant little story. It's cute. I have nothing against it, for sure. I do think it's a little od like her daughter. They also name her Fanny. And then that whole later section wasn't my favorite, but it had a lot of charm to it. And I think a lot of that was because of Claude Rains'performance. He's such a. Yeah. [00:06:32] Speaker C: He's one of my unsung actors. And if you wanted to learn how to act, you would definitely need to listen to watch Claude Reigns. Rather, even the older he got, his level never dropped. George, anything you want to say about that first experience? How did you feel? If you can go back, how did you feel when I hit the record button? What went through your mind? [00:07:04] Speaker B: Terror. But having you beside me, it really helped. Moya. I started to just try and concentrate on the movie because I knew that from a little bit of research I'd done that she loved Claude Reigns as a co star more than any other male star. She respected his talent and she knew that he kind of sharpened her. When she went head to head with him. It made her better and it made him better. And so they were an amazing powerhouse. When you put them on screen, it was just electricity. So I tried to concentrate on the movie, but to be perfectly honest, I was so scared. [00:07:43] Speaker C: That's hilarious. I couldn't tell. And I don't know where that footage is. Norman, like I said, we videoed it first because we didn't know what we're going to do. This was just to see if we could do it. And we clicked. And as they said, arrest is history. And I got to find it. George. I thought I'd transfer. I'm trying to find it and it's probably all grainy and horrible, but yeah. And I'm not going to say where we were when we did it, but it wasn't anywhere salacious, illegal or immoral. [00:08:20] Speaker B: Not at all. [00:08:22] Speaker C: For confidentiality purposes, I won't say where we did. You know, George and I would talk about movies all the time when we were at work. And so it just was a natural. So I kept saying Georgia, like, just do what we do normally. But we'll just have the tablet in front of us and record. So that's how we wound up doing it. So let's take a look at our next movie. And here we go. The little foxes. So, Norman, tell me what you think about this one. [00:09:00] Speaker A: Oh, wow. Yeah, I do like this movie a lot. I think Betty's just fantastic in it. I think this is the beginning of a rift between her and the director. Know, kind of catapulted her to her first Oscar or her second Oscar picture. But you can definitely see a hardness here to her that enters into the picture. And she's quite delightful being evil. She's quite an unlikable person. The whole family is unlikable people. And I think they really portray that quite well. It also has Teresa Wright, who's always a favorite. So, yeah, it's a good movie. I also want to say the fashions in both of these pictures are really interesting. They're historical fashions. Mr. Skepington goes from the early teens to the mid thirty s and forty s. And this one is squarely in the early 19 hundreds. And it's quite beautiful. The costumes are gorgeous. [00:09:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Let's take a look at my favorite, this hat. Oh, my gosh. And I love a good cameo. Well, the jewelry piece I'm talking about. And this is at the height when women really wore a lot of those pieces like that. And the corsages. And she has the whole flock of seagulls on her head, doesn't she? Oh, my gosh. Nora, I'm glad you brought that up, because let's not ignore. And this was the height of lace. Let's take a look at that. Look at this one and look at the hair. And this was what they call that lady, the Gilmore girl. That's not right. [00:10:46] Speaker B: Gibson girl. [00:10:47] Speaker C: Gibson. Yeah. The height of that and those tight bodices. But look at that lace. Just gorgeous. So, Norma, what we did, I think it was like an hour long session, 30 minutes. I can't remember what we did, how long we did it. But anyway, so we just flowed. We started with Scaffoldington, and then we flowed into the little foxes. And we had a lot of fun. So, George, I did kind of go back and listen to some of that when I was working on this. So let's take a look at this next is. I'm sorry, guys. This is pretty much going to be a Betty Davis retrospective. Of course, we've done other movies, but Betty gave us. So this was our early. [00:11:37] Speaker A: This. [00:11:38] Speaker C: This is our legs, our love for Betty day. So we did a lot of. So, okay, Norman. And so know we only do a little short drops. But once we got to get Norman, and we got to do all about Eve all over and probably get Norman in. So, Norman, what do you think about all about Eve? [00:11:57] Speaker A: The most wonderful movie. I think this. And now Voyager and Dark Victory are, like, my favorite, favorite, favorite, favorite Betty Davis movies. But this one, her casting in this is just perfect. It would have been Claudette Colbert, who I really can't see doing as brilliant. [00:12:17] Speaker C: No. [00:12:21] Speaker A: It really crackles. It's such a great movie. I really enjoy her characterization. The clothes are fabulous. The dress that she wears at the party. She just has a look that's just so elegant. So New York. [00:12:41] Speaker C: Yeah. And, of course, Marilyn Monroe was in this movie had a little cameo. So my other girl is Baxter. I love. I mean, she's one of best supporting actress for another movie, for Razor's edge. So we did Razor's edge early on too. We actually recorded that one in my house. I don't know where that footage is. Have to. It's on that tablet, I guess. I don't know. And that tablet is. So Anne Baxter got the war for that. So Anne Baxter is also in this movie. Norman, what are your feelings about her? Anne Baxter, not versus, but with. Because her and Betty were friends. But how do you feel about Anne Baxter as an actress? [00:13:30] Speaker A: I think in this movie she really did a good job of sort of maintaining that line so that as her character gets revealed, it becomes a very interesting development for her. [00:13:44] Speaker B: She's okay. [00:13:44] Speaker A: She's not my favorite, but I like her. She's great in this role. I think she really capitalized on a certain intensity here, which is really enjoyable to watch. [00:13:58] Speaker C: Okay. Yeah. And she didn't compete talking about in scenes with Betty Davis. It was just perfectly cast. And George Sanders love him to death. He's not on here in this picture. And then Georgia, tell us about Gary Merrill, the person to the left of Betty. What's the trivia behind that? [00:14:23] Speaker B: This was maybe her third husband. I'm not sure exactly where he was in the line of succession, but I thought he did a really good job in this movie. Yeah. She tried to put Gary Merrill in there and I remember seeing him in one other movie, but he's very good actress. He's a great actor, does a great job in it. I don't have a whole lot more that I can remember about Gary Merrill, but I thought Betty was just brilliant in this movie and it gave us that memorable line. It's going to be a bumpy night. [00:15:03] Speaker A: Yeah. And they married and had quite a tumultuous relationship. She always said that he married Margot Channing and woke up with Betty Davis and they had ten years together. And in this movie, I think that even Celeste Holme in interviews has said like they were falling in love on camera. So it really added a lot of oomph to the production. Just the fact they were falling in love as the movie is being filmed and there was a lot of sexual tension in the air. I think it added to another layer to the movie that's already know. [00:15:43] Speaker C: Okay, Norman, I'm going to test how much of a Betty Davis fan you are, because this movie was our first video that we did made a video just kind of like what we're doing now. But I edited it, and George and I did the voiceovers, blah, blah, blah. So let me see if you know what this movie is. Let me make sure there's no clues. Okay. [00:16:14] Speaker A: Oh, dear. Is that dead ringer right? [00:16:21] Speaker C: Wow. Yes. Got it. [00:16:25] Speaker A: Have to wake up very early if you think it. [00:16:30] Speaker C: Hilarious. Hilarious. So what did you think about this one? So this was later on her career, like in the 60s. What did you think about this was 63. What did you think about this one? [00:16:40] Speaker A: The one and only, I believe, movies that she herself, her production company was in charge of. And I heard it said in some biography that she'd been demanding and demanding and demanding for quality pictures. Quality pictures, quality roles, and she finally had the chance and she decided to costar against herself. So I don't know. It's a very interesting picture from a technological point of view. She does play twins. There's always that intrigue about how is she going to get away with it? Yeah, it's interesting movie. It's very gritty. It's very like 60s. It's a different kind of Betty, for sure, but the two, Betty's together are quite interesting to see. [00:17:28] Speaker C: Giorgio, do you remember when we did this one? What are your memories of this one? [00:17:35] Speaker B: This was a fun, mean. You've got what she does to her. And just like Norman said, the real intrigue in this movie is how is she going to be convincing as the other? It's because she plays the evil twin that you see here, just like she does in a stolen life. You see Betty versus Betty again. But this was, I believe, I think this was the second one that she did, because she did a stolen life first, then she did dead ringer. And so this movie was just so much fun to see her pull this off because you can imagine this had to be terribly difficult for her to be such a contrast in characters, to be so convincing that she did. [00:18:33] Speaker A: And you also have Peter Lawford, who is kind of hot at the moment. And Carl Malden is always an amazing actor. I think he's an underrated actor. He's really terrific in here. I think that the affection that he has for the poor sister is just so touching and so endearing. I really believed their story. Also, I loved this scene in her bar where she's got the band playing, and you kind of get the sense that she's trying to get a business going, trying to help other people, and she's just always behind the eight ball, and she's just really struggling. And I like that twin story. [00:19:16] Speaker C: And I'm glad you brought that up because when you mentioned the bar, there's this jazz duo I believe in there. It's not a rarity, but it kind of is, because we have seen black musicians featured in movies. But the fact that they kept, most of the time you saw black musicians in movies, they were already prominent, like you saw Louis Armstrong or Cab Calloway or something. But it was really cool that they featured this. It was a male and a female. I think they were a real life couple. Of course, I can't remember their names, but they would feature them. They would actually put the camera on them. And it was adding actually to the scene of the movie. And like you said, her bar. And it's the early sixty s, of course, the civil rights movement. Movement and what have you. But for them to feature these people who weren't household names and put them on there to really give the zeitgeist of that bar scene and the scene of that city, I thought that was, in my opinion, unique. Very unique. And I remember us, George and I, talking about that. But, yeah, I'm like with you, Norman, Betty can really do any wrong. And we really had a lot of fun doing dead ringer. And I had a headache editing because I didn't know what I was doing. I still don't know what I'm doing. But I really learned on dead Ringer how to edit and put my videos together, and I wanted to do some more. Our first reaction video, everyone was ladies in retirement with Idolapino. I'm not going to pull it up. Our first Christmas was, of course, it's a wonderful life. I'm not going to pull it up. Right. Um, so we just had a blast doing that. And I just think again, thank you, audience, and thank you, Georgia. So let's get to our today's movie. Of course, it's going to be none other than let's. And here's our are. Okay. I thought it was sharing it. Let's see. Did it come up? Okay, let me put it up right now. Okay, I see what's going on. So. Yeah, sorry, I'm knocking everybody off. Oh, my Gosh. Wait, I'm booming big time. Let me see. Let's go back to. No, look at that. I want everybody in the screen. All right, can we please let me see. Stop screen. Let's stop screen. Let's try this again. I'm still learning, everybody. This is on the job training, everyone. There we go. Okay. Let's see how that looks. There we go. That's what I want to see. So here's today's movie. Hush, hush, sweet Charlote. So, guys, take it away. Trivia in front the camera, behind the camera. Let's get into it. [00:22:34] Speaker B: Okay. Well, this movie has such a backstory because it was supposed to been the second pairing after whatever happened to baby Jane, and they were going to have Joan Crawford with Betty again. However, about a couple of weeks into the filming of the movie, Joan Crawford ostensibly needs to drop out, claiming illness, and so it causes a mad dash or scramble to find somebody else to co star in the movie. Otherwise the whole project is going to need to be scrapped. And so they had several really great ladies that they considered for the role. They tried to replace her with Catherine Hepburn, Barbara Stanwick, Vivian Lee, Loretta Young, and they all turned it down. And Vivian Lee is reported to have said, oh, I could face maybe Joan Crawford in the morning at seven. But Betty Davis's face, no way. Oh, my. You know, can you imagine how that would have been? Because you would have had Betty Davis think of her as Jezebel against Scarlett O'Hara. Scarlett v Jezebel. [00:23:50] Speaker C: Just think of that. [00:23:51] Speaker B: That would have been wild, wouldn't it? But anyway, so then, just as everybody has turned them down, Betty says, well, you know, let's bring in my friend Olivia de Havilland. And so the story goes that the director, aldrich, he traveled all the way to her home in Switzerland, took days to get there and convinced her, after wooing her for a time like, you've got to help us out. She said, ok, I'm going to help my dear friend Betty. And so that's part of the reason how you got there. But another thing that happened was when it was obvious that they had to let go of Joan Crawford, Aldrich the director said, give us a couple of days so that we can notify her attorney. And Betty jumped the gun and no, no. So she informed her press agent. It went public. And Joan Crawford, I think, found out through the media that she had been fired from the production and she was going to be replaced. So there goes Betty and Joanie. Get another salvo in their ongoing. [00:25:04] Speaker C: Let'S. Norma, we're going to go through each woman. We're going to be real caddy, if you will. I hate to use that term, but we are Catherine Hepburn go in the role of the cousin. What do you think? [00:25:21] Speaker A: No, I just don't see it. I don't see her and Betty opposite each other in any way, shape or form. I just can't see it. [00:25:29] Speaker C: And Loretta Young maybe. Well, first you got to be evil or have evil intent. Loretta Young, I don't think she ever played a villain. Like, the woman literally had a show and she was a nun and a mean. She might have even been an angel. I don't know. So, no, that was not going to happen. [00:25:52] Speaker A: It's been know. It might have. I think Olivia de Havillen ended up being. I mean, Joan Fontaine could have certainly have done know Olivia's sister. That would have been interesting. I think there could have been a few choices. The choices that were mentioned, Vivian Lee against her would have been interesting. That the battling southern bells would have been interesting. Yeah, it's interesting to contemplate these other options. [00:26:20] Speaker B: And maybe even Barbara Stanwick, I think, could have pulled it off pretty. [00:26:25] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about the movie. What's the plot? Either Norman or Georgia. What's the plot of our movie? [00:26:36] Speaker B: Okay, well, Betty Davis plays Charlote. She's a southern belle who becomes a recluse after her married lover is found hacked to death at her party. And everybody believes that Charlote is the one who committed this grisly murder. But she lives in this huge Louisiana plantation mansion all alone with a very disheveled maid being her only friend, played by Agnes Morehead. And as if living alone for decades wasn't punishment enough. Okay, so the highway commission now wants to have Charlote vacate her home so they can build a road and a bridge through it. So she doesn't want to leave the only home she's ever known and living all these years alone, her social skills are really lacking. So she asked her cousin Miriam, played by Olivia de Havillin, to come stay with her so that she can help her. And so all of a sudden, the past comes roaring back. Things start to get really creepy, and it takes poor Charlote to the brink of madness. And that's when the fun begins. [00:27:44] Speaker A: Oh, that was good. [00:27:46] Speaker C: Yeah. Let's see if we can take a look at this trailer. So this is coming from this YouTube channel, the making of hush, hush, sweet Charlote AMC backstory. So for those of you who, when you see this on YouTube, I'll try to put the link in the description box. And I think they have a little bit of the trailer. So I'm going to share that with us so we can take a look at that, because it was actually very interesting. The backstory was just as delicious as the movie and weird as well. So let's take a look at that hush, sweet Charlote. Okay, so before we started doing this, Norman and Georgia said it scared the bejesus. Could this have been the scene, one of the scenes that scared you guys? [00:28:56] Speaker B: Yes, that and the head rolling down the staircase. [00:29:00] Speaker A: It definitely recalls like psycho. It definitely brings to mind it's also shot in black and white, in keeping with that sort of like horror genre. That was white was sort of a choice at this point. So it was clearly an artistic choice. [00:29:16] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. [00:29:21] Speaker A: East in 1964, the gothic melodrama hush, hush, sweet Charlote told the lurid tale of a demented southern bell haunted by the memory of her lover's mysterious murder. [00:29:38] Speaker C: That was creepy too. Georgia knows I hate spoilers, but that was very creepy too. And it was just cruel. And so that's why I think they needed the havilland to do this because I'm going to try not to give it too much away. Give too much away. But this was really cruel, what they did to this poor woman. And so when you see how they torture know it kind of all makes. [00:30:06] Speaker A: And you also have to acknowledge. So Joseph Cotton. [00:30:11] Speaker C: Yes. [00:30:13] Speaker A: Arm menace to the role. It's very similar to the part that he played like Uncle Charlie in that wonderful Hitchcock movie shadow of a doubt. So he brings that sort of like same presence to this movie, which is really lovely to see. He's a great actor. [00:30:35] Speaker B: Oh, there it goes. [00:30:37] Speaker A: There's that head. [00:30:39] Speaker C: That's what I was waiting to see. I'm sorry Georgia, I'm retraumatizing you. It's all for art. It's all for art. It's all for art. Well. [00:30:53] Speaker A: No, it's somebody. I want to say it's John Boyt but I don't think that's correct. [00:31:01] Speaker C: Oh, Bruce. Dern, dern. [00:31:03] Speaker A: Thank. [00:31:05] Speaker C: I want. He had a funny story about the making of it and I didn't click on it and now I can't find it again. So I'll go back later on and look at it. But guys, we're kind of running out of time. But again, this is why we're here. Of course there are several reviews of this movie on YouTube and wherever else, but nobody does it like George and I and no one has the guests like George and I. So that's why we here and to give a new take on these movies. And of course, like I said, we had to do Betty Davis. George, is there any more trivia? And Norman, before we get out of. And Norman, I want to touch on the costumes and some of the trivia behind that as well. But George, is there any more trivia for us. [00:31:57] Speaker B: Yeah, I just wanted to say this was filmed at the homeless house plantation. It's in Burnside, Louisiana, not far from Baton Rouge. And when Mary Astor was filming there, she said, oh, my gosh, it's hellish hot. And so, yeah, I wanted to also say that Mary Astor did a phenomenal job. Just really well done. And this was her very last movie that she ever did. [00:32:26] Speaker C: That's right. Yeah. [00:32:27] Speaker A: Really ill at this point, but it's amazing to see her and the interplay between her and the detective gentleman. It's very lovely. That whole scene, the end scene with them is really quite powerful. I do want to bring up the clothes. Olivia de Havlin in particular. I mean, the other ladies aren't really fashion plates, but Olivia, by contrast, definitely is of the moment. This is very 1964, ladylike, ladybird, sort of inspired Aline sheath dresses, very elegant, very put together, very polished. If you want to know what 1964 ladies wore, this is what they wore. Very beautiful. If Joan had gotten this part, she would have brought her own clothing to the role, which is something that she was fond of doing. She liked to bring her own wardrobe. So it's interesting to see what she might have contributed to it had she been the cousin, because this was such. [00:33:27] Speaker B: A rush job bringing in Olivia de Havaland. She had to use her own personal wardrobe. And in the dinner scene, she's wearing this chiffon dress, and that's a Christian Dior dress that actually was from her own personal wardrobe. [00:33:45] Speaker A: It looks great in it. She definitely has a beautiful presence in this movie. Charlote. [00:33:59] Speaker C: I'm sorry, Norma, can you repeat that? Because it broke. Sorry. [00:34:02] Speaker A: Her elegant against Charlote is a really sharp contrast. And also her very pulled together look sort of belies some undercurrent stuff that's going on that makes it also interesting. [00:34:19] Speaker C: Yeah, and I think that was on purpose, obviously, because like you all said, poor Charlote was stuck pretty much in antebellum, if, you know, times are kind of a little bit past that. But pretty much for all the camp of movie, it just was really now as an adult and on the other side of 50, and we know what we know about elder abuse. And I hate to bring the podcast down, but it just kind of hit differently. Do you all know what I mean? [00:34:55] Speaker B: Yes. Because this movie was played with a certain amount of poignancy in her character that you don't see in whatever happened to baby Jane. And so when you watch the expressions on her face, like at the know, her pain and anguish and then later in the movie, where, you know, where she thinks her bo John is there. She has this hope and expectancy on her face. And then there is such an interplay. The last two minutes of this movie, there's absolutely no dialogue from Betty, but you see such emotion there. But I have to say, as a counterpoint, I found myself laughing at this movie because there's a scene, I'm not going to describe it because we don't want to do a spoiler, but towards the end of the movie, there's something that Betty does. And let me tell you, I thought I was watching Looney Tunes like Wiley Coyote and the Roadrunner and I started, and you'll probably know what scene I'm talking about. But anyway, I'll leave it to our listeners because there's some times where I'm absolutely laughing. It's not meant to be funny, but I thought it was. [00:36:05] Speaker A: It's like, oh, you mean Agnes Morehead adds a lot of really funny. Agnes Morehead, sort of like, is the one who sees through all of the bullshit. And she really has some funny, funny lines. And if you know, Agnes Morehead is know Endora from Bewitch. Very glamorous, very elegant. And she's in this role. It's quite an interesting thing to see her in this role. She really goes for it. Just one of those actors also who didn't mind going that extra level to convey the character. And she really goes for it in a very satisfying way. She's really funny. She's got some great lines. [00:36:44] Speaker C: And she was, of course, nominated. Well, not of course, because sometimes people get overlooked. But she was nominated for an Academy Award. But, guys, I was, like, considerably old till I realized that was Agnes Moore. Like, the first time I saw it, I had no idea that was Endora. And that's just, of course, the makeup and whatever, but she totally different people. And that's just a testament to great acting. Yes, she's chewing up the scenery and it's a little over the top. So is Endora, who didn't love Endora. So did you all know it was her when you all first saw it? Because I saw it when I was like, maybe in my something and I totally missed it. Did you all know it was Endora? Because even though I saw the credits, it just still didn't click with me. That was her. She really fooled me. [00:37:36] Speaker B: No. Well, I was a kid when I saw it, so I didn't make the connection. And I used to watch Bewitch, but I didn't realize it was her, but I was looking for her and, wow. I mean, she's such a scene stealer. She is absolutely amazing in this role. [00:37:50] Speaker A: Yeah. And she's got some great. I loved her in dark passage with Fogart and really character and very elegant, very beautiful. This woman had a great career. She was in some really top notch movies. The magnificent Amberson citizen. [00:38:10] Speaker C: Yes. [00:38:12] Speaker A: And, yeah, what a career. [00:38:17] Speaker C: Well, guys, I'm going to end it on that note, is there anything else? Because I'm going to leave the floor to you all. [00:38:24] Speaker A: Congratulations, guys. I'm so happy for you, you guys. A lot of fun. It's a lot of fun to listen to. So good for you. I'm really happy that you continue bringing movies to people and the conversation going, it's wonderful. So congratulations. [00:38:39] Speaker C: Oh, thank you so much, Norman. That really touches us. I never would have dreamed we'd have gotten this far. I mean, we hoped. And then to have someone like you guesting with our show is just really an honor. Thank you so much. [00:38:51] Speaker A: Thank you. It's always a treat. [00:38:54] Speaker B: Yeah. Norman, you add so much to the show and your knowledge just astounds me. I am beyond impressed and appreciate you so much for your contribution. [00:39:04] Speaker A: I know a lot of trivia. [00:39:10] Speaker C: That's so funny. Look, we all found each other and other people who follow us to deposit all this stuff, because when you do a podcast like this, it is niche and you can grow, and we are trying to grow it, and we just got to really put our nose to the grindstone, but you got to really love it, because it's not today's headlines or is it? And it's not super sexy anything. So you got to really be passionate about. And these people are all dead for the most part, even though a lot of them, like Joan and Betty, they led salacious lives and such. But it's the past. So to bring this back to life, you have to be sincere, and you have to have people like Norman and ultimate fashion history and all the people, the oasis and the different groups we're a part of. So we're out there, we're finding each other. But thanks for all the groups that we're a part of on Facebook and of course, the YouTube that keeps everything alive. So, yeah, thanks again. So, Georgia, is there anything else you want to say before we head on out? [00:40:17] Speaker B: No, it was great fun today, and it's a wrap for me. [00:40:21] Speaker C: Well, guys, I'm Moya. [00:40:24] Speaker B: And I'm Georgia. [00:40:25] Speaker C: And thanks again to our special guest, Norman, of the ultimate fashion history. Please check out their YouTube channel and their Facebook page of the same name. If you want quality content on fashion clothes, interior design, style from the past and present and sometimes the future, please go over to that channel. That page. It is so much fun. And I don't know, Norman, how you guys find the content and just, I mean, it's a bunch of them over there, so they have a lot of people working, but they have such great. [00:41:02] Speaker A: Content because it's such a cross section of people. I think the love of old movies and old, it does bring an interesting cross section of folks. People that might not have much in common seem to really enjoy this community. And it's always interesting, and everybody brings to it something different. Everybody has a different. I like the movies. Other people like certain designers or certain eras, and so everybody's kind of like a little expert in their own little world, and they share their knowledge with everybody. It's really fun. And you get quite a cross section of all kinds of historical knowledge, especially about clothes and history of clothes and the impact of clothes on society and back and forth. Really quite a fun thing to be part of. [00:41:54] Speaker C: And I just want to pull up your page quickly so everyone can get a glance of what we're talking about. And it came up right away because I'm always perusing over there. And let me just quickly share their page with. [00:42:11] Speaker A: And that you might want to think about doing the bride war red on a future episode. [00:42:15] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Because you all just featured. So here's their page. You all just featured that dress, right, Norman? Yeah. You all just featured that dress, right? [00:42:31] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:33] Speaker C: And then you all did some other dresses as well. [00:42:38] Speaker A: Because people will respond to each other's comments and add to the conversation, which is always fun. Gentlemen, to the comment bride war red by this is the same dress being recycled, which is another fun thing about film fashion. So this is the same dress that was used in 1937, designed by Adrian, that pops up in subsequent other productions. Also, I wanted to point out when you mentioned the woman singing in the jazz group and the bar at Betty Davis's bar, she's wearing a top that Eve Arden originally wore in Mildred Pierce. So clothes are constantly being recycled. [00:43:23] Speaker C: No way. Get out of here. That's crazy. Wow. You are a bastion of fashion knowledge. That's so funny. I wish I could to. I would have to never eat again to get in that red dress. [00:43:49] Speaker A: Eat a good girdle. You'll be fine. [00:43:52] Speaker C: Norman. I need several girls. I would have to cut off blood circuit. I would look good, but I'd pass out at some point. [00:43:58] Speaker A: Well, these women sacrifice for these looks. [00:44:04] Speaker C: Georgia, would you try to wear something like that? [00:44:07] Speaker B: I wish. I mean, oh, my. [00:44:14] Speaker C: I would definitely need to lose some weight all, like I said, saran wrap myself and put a girdle on. But like Georgia say, like in your younger years, I say wear it now, but just period. Would you wear a dress like that? [00:44:27] Speaker B: Yes, I would. [00:44:28] Speaker C: And where would you wear it? [00:44:31] Speaker B: I probably would have worn it to some kind of a formal event that I was going to, because every once in a while, I had a chance to go to something that was just very dressy. And, I mean, you wear that. Oh, my gosh. Can you imagine? It's beyond bell of the ball. I mean, you would be center stage. I don't even know the words to describe it. That is like a one in a million dress. It is just a showstopper. Yeah, I would have worn it. You bet. [00:45:02] Speaker C: You know, Norman, let us know. I think we should do, like you said, do feature red dresses. Because now that's making me go back to my most favorite dress of all time, Scarlet, when she goes to Melanie's birthday party. And if I ever renew my vows, I would have to have that dress remade. So maybe we all should do a video of just infamous or famous red dresses. What do you think? [00:45:29] Speaker A: Don't forget, Jezebel wore the red dress to the Olympus ball and caused questions. [00:45:36] Speaker C: Oh, gosh, I forgot about that. Yes, red, I think I've worn. I don't know. Have you all heard this? But if a woman wore red to a wedding, that means something. Like, either she is a statement and not a good one. Have you all heard that before? [00:45:58] Speaker A: You don't wear red or black to a wedding unless you're asked to. [00:46:02] Speaker C: Okay, I have worn red to someone's wedding. And no, I did not like them. I did. On purpose. [00:46:11] Speaker B: You're hilarious. Did you create a scandal? [00:46:16] Speaker C: Like I cared. And no one would tell me anything because they knew better. But I don't think they liked the person either. So we were all there under duress, so it didn't matter. [00:46:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I think another bad color would be white also, because you'd be competing with the bride. [00:46:37] Speaker A: So that's another. [00:46:39] Speaker C: I've done that. This show has taken a turn. It's not all about Moya. It's all about Eve. [00:46:50] Speaker A: Like how to ruin a friend's wedding in one easy step. [00:46:55] Speaker C: Well, see, that's the thing, Norman. We weren't friends. We were friendly. [00:46:59] Speaker A: I get it. [00:47:00] Speaker C: One of them, I thought, was my. Why I was younger, I would never do that now because that's terrible. That's not the christian thing to do. And child who getting married now anyway? That's a whole nother conversation. Nobody getting married anymore. That's a whole other conversation. Well, guys, look, as I draw back on my secrets, thanks for playing with us today. We have some lovely parting gifts for you. [00:47:29] Speaker A: All right. You ladies are crazy. It's really fun to hang out with you. [00:47:33] Speaker C: Yes. Thank you, guys. We love you all. And I can't remember what our next movie is, but we will see you next time. [00:47:40] Speaker B: It's cocoon, by the way. [00:47:42] Speaker C: Oh, thank you, cocoon. Cocoon. So, yes, we will see you next week. Not this week, but the week following. You guys take care. How Betty Davis saved my life. I'm Moya. [00:47:54] Speaker B: And I'm Georgia. [00:47:55] Speaker C: And thanks again, Norman, for the fifth time. We are leaving this time, guys. You all have a great week. See you the next time for cocoon. Bye.